Cartoonish Chivalry hurts daughters

It’s time to revisit a subject that I covered a lot more on the old “Courtship Pledge” site. This meme is making the social media rounds again:

16386907_1756645217694544_7940402315734884498_n

Which is the memetic version of this song:

I assume when I see men sharing and supporting this variety of cartoonish chivalry several possibilities (or combinations thereof) are present.

They are dads of daughters who do not also have sons. They may have sons but they have not thought through what it would be like for a young man in the current marriage/dating market to encounter a dad like this. They believe that their daughters are unlike any other woman in the history of the world.

So lets have a straight conversation about this meme, dads.

First, you can’t be serious. Set aside all the stuff you tell yourself and probably your wife about “traditional values and gender roles” or whatever. You cannot, in todays world seriously plan on carrying out any of these threats. You are puffing out your chest to “scare” off the “bad” boys, who know you are full of crap. It feels good, because all the women around you pat you on the head and nod approvingly. You have earned your cookie.

Second, think back for a moment to your young, dating days. You know good and well that when a girl is/was really into you, you do not/did not have to pressure her into taking the relationship to the next physical level. Remember the back of your truck at the lake? Drive ins? House parties after the big game? I do, and I don’t remember ever coercing a girlfriend. All woman are like that, and so is your daughter. Therefore this business of needing to be scared away from her is silly.

Third, what have you done in your daughters life to make her worthy of such a cartoonish gauntlet that every young man in the world will say “nope” to the second he meets you on the porch with your stupid gun routine?

I have a daughter and sons. I am aware of the nature of both, and I am teaching them what to expect from themselves (the darker side of their respective nature) and from the other sex. I am teaching them what makes them a good “catch” and what will make it difficult for them to find what they need in a spouse.

My daughter will be eight this week, and already she is an important part of our farming/ranching operation. For three seasons now she has planted seeds, gathered eggs, fed hogs, seen a rooster killed, learned to bake bread, learned how to sew–not just repairs but entire items of clothing–and she knows that daddy is the author of our lifestyle, mommy’s leader, and the one who is accountable for what happens around here.

When the time comes for her to start looking for a husband, she already knows we are interested in helping her find one and this makes her very happy. And when a young man comes around, he will not be met with a silly cartoon shotgun dad, but a father who wants to help them both succeed at what they are trying to do. We are not setting up an automatic adversarial relationship with him before we meet. I am aware that many young men will be at a very tenuous starting point in their career, development and so forth and I will approach the situation with that kind of sobriety.

The culture has raised, and is raising a bunch of entitled princesses–who also have the power to ruin a mans life with one phone call– so I am far more concerned about what my boys will encounter when looking for wives, quite frankly.

Advertisements

31 thoughts on “Cartoonish Chivalry hurts daughters

  1. “Second, think back for a moment to your young, dating days.”

    Can they actually do this? Princess Daddy always seems horrified at the idea that young men want sex, as if it was something unnatural. The signs you posted are symptoms of this attitude.

    Small wonder in-laws are universally despised. That should not be, but American society has a real problem of the old generation hating the new generation for no fault of the new guys’. Not just in marriage but also the workplace and church.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. GunnerQ

    Yes very sad. Mychael’s mother lives with us and regularly volunteers to take the kids and sends us to our room for an hour.

    I am very fortunate to have such support. I hope Mychael and I can be so.

    Like

  3. It is evident that cartoonish chivalry is fake when you see that they don’t ever get tough with their own daughters. They’ll threaten the boy who “hurt” his daughter by having consensual sex with her, but they will never get old-school like that with their daughter by pointing out that men don’t want to marry a girl who has thrown herself at other guys.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Scott
    You are puffing out your chest to “scare” off the “bad” boys, who know you are full of crap. It feels good, because all the women around you pat you on the head and nod approvingly. You have earned your cookie.

    This, right here, is true. I don’t know if this kind of chest-puffing was more common prior to the Internet or not, but it sure is found a lot of places now. It’s nonsense, nonsense on stilts, as you point out the real-deal “bad boys” will ignore you one way or another.

    Since the Geraghty-Prager white knight vid proclaiming “Ward Cleaver was a stud” [*] is still floating around, let’s take that ancient TV show for a model. Joe Dad is going to be alll huffed and puffed up when Eddie Haskell comes to take out his little daughter, and what will Eddie do? “Oh, yes sir! No sir! You bet, sir!” and then they’ll go to the movies and out parking by the lake as if Dad’s words don’t mean a thing. Which. They. Don’t.

    Because an alpha or a sigma will watch what Dad does, and discount what Dad says, and while meeting the young man on the porch while cleaning a shotgun makes for impressive chest thumping on a web site, in reality it’s not so much. Especially when the girl in question is just as eager to get away from Dad as the young man is, and good job in pointing that out, Scott. The lingering neoVictorianism in so-called “conservative” circles is not helping anyone.

    Plus, you really hit the nail with You have earned your cookie, because this behavior is all about impressing women and betaized men, it has zero effect on alpha men. So it’s a pose, and nothing more; worse still, it’s a pose for women.

    The men who play at this game are so betaized they cannot relate to other men as men, perhaps? That leads to a larger rabbit trail, for another day. Good posting.

    [*] “Who?” replies everyone under 50, thereby showing how out of touch with reality Prager and Geraghty are.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Pingback: Scaring away the competition | Dalrock

  6. These kind of memes? Merely low IQ fathers (rightfully) alarmed at the reality of their daughter’s sexual future. Public school seals the deal. Sort of a pathetic coda for the modern father, actually. But it’s mostly mothers driving this modern sexual free-for-all; fathers are usually blustering bystanders. In a sense, modern fathers have become enablers of feminism in these memes. Daughters are gonna do what they want eventually, and a wise father knows this and prepares accordingly. The tighter dad squeezes his daughter’s future in his fist, the faster it slips through his fingers.

    Have no fear, though. I guess it’s gonna get ugly enough in most parts of the US over the next few decades to put the fear of God into young women (if it’s not there already). Feminism is actually pretty ugly for female-on-female competition for quality men, whose number is growing quite thin due to family decline. It’s a multicultural divorce wonderland. Fathers should be more interested in recruiting quality than driving away losers. I know I am.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. You cannot, in todays world seriously plan on carrying out any of these threats. You are puffing out your chest to “scare” off the “bad” boys, who know you are full of crap.

    Men that display such posters/signs, or much worse – say any of these things out loud – have forfeited, in advance, any respect the younger man may have developed for them given time. Often enough an older man can gain the respect and confidence of a younger by simply treating him as well as he would any other visitor or acquaintance. I’m sure there are some young men that just would not give a damn either way, but there are many more that would covet the approval and mentorship of an older man and would try to keep that going.

    I admit I know nothing about raising daughters and may be oversimplifying a complex problem, but I know a little bit about leading men, and threats and bluster will fail at the crucial moment. Also, 99% of the men that pose like this are categorically afraid of prison, so they should take that off the sign.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. I get a good chuckle out of “dads” who act this way about their “princesses”.

    I teach my twin sons about muzzle awareness and finger off the trigger until ready to shoot…

    Like

  9. Most of these power meme dads really have no idea just how interested in sex their princess is. In fact, the harder the squeeze – as you mention – the worse and more unprepared their daughter will be for boys who dealing with increased desire.

    My father-in-law had an iron grip on my wife – which I understand. He’s lucky however I caught her right before she was going to go into an all-out slut phase which she was entering as she was starting college. I swooped in for admittedly “friends with benefits” purposes and ended up marrying her in the long run.

    Now that I have a son and another son on the way, I’m worried about the kind of hostility they face from “fathers” as well as the world in general. It’s a dangerous world for young men in terms of sexual relations.

    Preparing your kids even when they are young to always be on the lookout for spouse material is wise and I’ll be doing it with my sons – and possibly future daughters.

    Godspeed Scott, and keep up the great work.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. > female-on-female competition for quality men

    What? I wonder if you live in a significantly different culture than what I find in Canada. I have been praying for a wife and trying to find one since about age 21, over 20 years ago. Except for 1 year, I have consistently been serving in church, being involved. I memorize Scripture to correct my thoughts before those thoughts lead to actions.
    And, within the church, the effort I see in people, either parents of daughters, or the daughters themselves, to secure me or a similar man for marriage is … … almost zilch.
    So what is this competition for quality men of which you speak, and where is it?

    I can accept that “formerly” promiscuous women are now looking for something else, but only after throwing away their best years.
    I can accept that idiot pastors, hearing the whining of unmarried women but being too stupid to understand her situation is self-induced, complain about men not manning up to accept the Satanic form of marriage our countries permit.

    But I do not see women being impressed with my service, humility, and dedication to Scripture. I see them largely avoiding me and other good men.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Rules for dating my son (potential mother-in-law’s version):

    1. You better know how to keep house and him happy.
    2. If you lie to me, I will find out.
    3. I can make you go away.
    4. Understand I don’t like you.
    5. I am everywhere.
    6. You hurt him. I will hurt you.
    7. Whatever you will do to him, I will do to you.
    8. I’m not afraid of prison.

    But this, sir, is gold:

    “And when a young man comes around, he will not be met with a silly cartoon shotgun dad, but a father who wants to help them both succeed at what they are trying to do. We are not setting up an automatic adversarial relationship with him before we meet. I am aware that many young men will be at a very tenuous starting point in their career, development and so forth and I will approach the situation with that kind of sobriety.”

    Most young men will appreciate this immensely. Most young men’s fathers do not have the ability, means or even an admission that they have not sufficiently invested in the lives of their sons, for whatever reasons (but I am not putting the blame fully at their feet), This is what’s lacking in our… modern society today. The family and community are very much broken.

    Like

  12. Dale, So what is this competition for quality men of which you speak, and where is it?

    I understand your POV. Lots of men are looking for a woman. However, for me (and I hope my daughters feel this way too) quality means more than just some guy with a strong individual religious belief system wanting to marry. I would advise her against that guy.

    My list: 1) serious RC or similar, 2) no BC, 3) no divorce option, 4) mature, career path, 5) no wuss, physically fit. What are we down to, 1%? Slim pickings out there, methinks. Let’s just say I have strong doubts any of my girls or boys will marry half the quality their spouses will inherit in the deal.

    Like

  13. I am aware that many young men will be at a very tenuous starting point in their career, development and so forth and I will approach the situation with that kind of sobriety.

    May God bless you greatly for this attitude, Scott. Horrifyingly rare these days is the father who groks that the emerging generation of young men is facing a truly bleak, perhaps even hopeless future, one full of socioeconomic struggle, hardship, and heartache the likes of which he never had to face when he was the same age. It’s a toxic form of solipsism and selfishness that poisons the inter-generational relationships that are going to be more vital than ever for the formation and preservation of stable families as things continue to implode.

    Too many dads today don’t realize that one day, when they’re too old to function any longer (yes, this still happens even in our modern era of technology-ueber-alles), they may very well find themselves needing to rely on a strong, loving SiL to help carry them, especially if all they have are daughters. It is foolishly counterproductive and self-defeating, at the very least, to make a habit of denigrating, disparaging, and undermining potential candidates for the SiL role.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Right on target, Scott. About a year ago in my blue pill men’s group, one of the dads was saying the guys at his daughter’s ivy league college need to keep their hands off. I told him that the college had co-ed dorm rooms so he probably wouldn’t have a lot of say. He didn’t believe me but sure enough a few weeks later he visited and found his daughter was sharing a room with a guy. He was pretty shocked but it was important that his daughter get that elite degree. So he had the shotgun talk with the guy sharing the room.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Funny, I said something to that effect and his response was “Well, this is why sound moral teaching when they are young is so important.”

    Liked by 1 person

  16. @Scott

    I’ve been thinking about this post a lot. More later, but in the meantime I want to say that this part needs to be highlighted, remembered, and accepted by every father of daughters out there.

    Second, think back for a moment to your young, dating days. You know good and well that when a girl is/was really into you, you do not/did not have to pressure her into taking the relationship to the next physical level. Remember the back of your truck at the lake? Drive ins? House parties after the big game? I do, and I don’t remember ever coercing a girlfriend. All woman are like that, and so is your daughter. Therefore this business of needing to be scared away from her is silly.

    @court jester

    Funny, I said something to that effect and his response was “Well, this is why sound moral teaching when they are young is so important.”

    If he did the important thing, then why did he have the “shotgun talk” with the roommate? You and Scott are right: This guy’s an idiot. Cowardice is always stupid.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Pingback: Half-Cocked Varitions | Things that We have Heard and Known

  18. I’m a 22 y.o christian man who’s been reading the manosphere for a few years now. This is one of the better, or more encouraging, paragraphs I’ve ever read on the meta of the situation.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. You can be good at being a man and be a good man

    Sadly it looks like you made the typical church guy mistake and only worked at half the job description

    SFC Ton always fires straight to center mass.

    A huge problem is that typical church guy has only been fed a diet of “meek and mild” in the faith. I admit this is a personal hobby horse but this is a dangerous situation, disregards the fact that Jesus Himself was, and most of the apostles became, absolutely the Hard Core Baltimore type of fearless leader of men that other men (and women) willingly follow.
    Exhibit A: St. Paul – “Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.” Etc. He was one tough SOB for The Faith. A good man and good at being a man.

    This is why Scott’s attitude is so important. He may be looking at a young man that wants to know the way, but no one has shown him yet. There could be profit to be made all around.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. As a bachelor I know if I went home to meet a girl’s parents and her father treated me with anything too far to either side of of cautiously optimistic politeness (a sort of “I hope my daughter’s found a good guy, but I’m not sure yet, so I should get to know him so I can steer her away or towards as required” attitude) I’d see it as a red flag.

    If he responded with the sort of fawning automatic approval you sometimes see in Hollywood, I’d worry that he’d been spoiling and fawning on “his little princess” her whole life and as a result she was likely an emotional cripple. (And he would likely cause any marital strife to escalate by encouraging her to take any of my failings, real or imagined, out of proportion)

    On the other hand if he responded with the sort of cartoonish authoritarianism that these guys at least joke about, then I’d be worried that if the man who knows her better than any other automatically assumes that she’s going to put out for any old arsehole who turns on the charm, perhaps I should take him at his word.

    Like

  21. Scott,
    A couple of points to ponder.
    1) Deut 22 gives the father of his daughter the stewardship of her sexuality until it is transferred to her husband, since the remedies are severe it is safe to assume this is important to God. IMO – this is not just passive approach to stewardship or simply telling one’s daughter to not be a whorish slut, but an active protection and duty.

    2) Getting our daughter married well involves training them to be a helpmeet for a man, to support his vision for life and his household mission. Any man who does not have the courage to pass a character test from me (I have two daughters, both teens) is not a man who can lead my daughters, but will most likely wilt under pressure and allow my daughters to manipulate him. I’m not looking for perfection in his leadership but direction and growth.

    The implementation of these two points may look cartoonish at first, but neither my daughters sexuality nor the approval of the man who will be her head is a small matter. I will scare off and or chase off the white-knight enablers, wussy manginas, the playboys and those lacking a mission and direction even if it means a few tears from my daughters. But to a suitable suitor I will pour my life into helping him be a successful husband and a man after God. My girls know I love them and want God’s best for them, they don’t always like it, but they trust and respect me as I fulfill my duties before God.

    Like

  22. All of that may be true but it does not stir in me a desire to false bravado/AMOG a possible future son in law.

    It seems to me there are a bunch of young men out there who have the potential to be great family leaders. I am leaving the door open to the possibility that if one of them wanders into my house I will have the ability to recognize it.

    Like

  23. This is one of tbose topics I keep revisiting. I rarely deliberately intimidate others, and when I do its almost always professional or to keep a situation in check. It’s a useful skill living and working among the diversity

    However if you are a man worthy of the name, your daughter’s suitors will be intimidated before they meet you and there is no need for theatrics. Hell the situation is naturally intimidating for most earnest young men of good intent.

    The false bravado deal probably also stems from a lack of long term thinking as well as a lack of genuine masculinity and frame.

    Like

  24. A dad should be able to command respect from potential interests. This isn’t how to do it.

    Especially the “I don’t like you” part.

    I have two girls under six. I do want to protect them from guy who have less than honorable intent. But I also want them to get married some day. Hopefully while they’re still relatively young and hopefully to good men. So my goal is to raise them always keeping that in mind. Trying to scare off any and all suitors seems rather counter-productive.

    In fact, isn’t early marriage to a solid guy one of the best ways to protect a daughter from bad guys?

    Like

  25. Pingback: Is offering to help creepy? | American Dad

  26. one of the dads was saying the guys at his daughter’s ivy league college need to keep their hands off.

    I would have said “the only reason to send her there is to get a quality husband who will make a great income and support your grandchildren” (then sit back as they squawk with outrage).

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s